Father Anne

Interview on September 20, 2024 by Geneva Williams

 

Geneva Williams: Can you tell us a little about your background and what got you interested in being a Catholic priest?

 

Father Anne: It’s a winding story so I’ll give you the short version. I was raised Catholic, I was baptized and received the sacraments through confirmation. But we didn’t practice in the Church. So I was leading an entirely secular life to the extent that I was managing an independent touring band. At some point in my very late 20s, I had a very powerful encounter with God. An experience of God. And from that point forward, I wouldn’t have described it as God at that point but I felt someone hounding me. It took me several years of faithful seeking to connect with that presence. I continued to manage my band, living a double life really, until I was finally able to connect with God. I went through RCIA in San Diego which was the first time as an adult I learned about the Catholic faith. 

 

After I went through RCIA–I didn’t receive the sacraments because I had received them in the past, but it was the first time I sat in a room of people of faith. The band relocated to Portland, Oregon. And it turned out that we moved a half a mile away from the Jesuit parish. So that’s where I learned to pray. The Jesuits taught me to pray. So I finally connected in a sustained way to God and once I started to develop a relationship through the formation of the Jesuits, that’s when I started to hear the call to priesthood. It took me a while to really test it and understand it because it didn’t make sense because the doctrine excluded women from ordination. I kept trying to live out the call within the confines of the institutional Church. Year after year I would take on new ministries. I would do every ministry that was available to a lay woman liturgically. Lector, Sacristan, Eucharistic Minister, Funeral Sacristan, etc. Finally I went on to get my Master of Divinity, and then I worked in the Jesuit parish as a Pastoral Associate, which was really Pastoral Administrator. Through the arch of those years I tested the call. The call was real. I knew after so many years that the call was a real call. 

 

That’s how it happened. I didn’t want to leave the institution–I don’t consider myself as having left, but I didn't want to be excommunicated, which is why I didn’t consider the Roman Catholic Woman Priest movement. I discovered it when I was in seminary but I was committed to the institutional Church. It was not until I left, because I went as far as I could, I had reached the stained glass ceiling. That was what caused me to finally entertain the Roman Catholic Woman Priest movement.
 

Geneva Williams: Do you see yourself as continuing the work of women who participated in the women’s ordination movement in the 1970s? 

 

Father Anne: I love this question. No one has ever asked me this question. Many of these questions actually, so this really makes me go inward to scrutinize how I feel. In my heart, the place I live from, my identity, is as a Jesuit. So what I actually see my work as, the way I live it out, is as a continuation of the Society of Jesus. It’s a continuation of their commitment to collaborate with God in the liberation of the world. That’s the place that I live out my vocation from because I have their spirituality, their charism. It’s where I feel the most at home, even though I’m kicked out of my home. At the same time, I completely acknowledge and have a depth of gratitude for the work of the movement since the 70s, over these five decades. Because they are the ones who made it possible for me to live out my life as a Jesuit at least in this approximating way because I am not in the Society of Jesus. They are the ones who made it possible for me to do this. And not only those women, not only the activists, but the scholars and theologians whose work I draw on time and again to advance the best that I can, the Spirit’s project of opening up hearts and minds about this issue. 

 

I think it’s the most entrenched issue in the Roman Catholic Church. It’s the longest, the LGBTQ issue is a related but a “newer” question, whereas this has gone back over the centuries. At the same time, fast forward through the decades, where do I see myself in the movement now? That’s a more nuanced answer. Because I totally reject the overemphasis on femininity that I see present in the movement. I understand it, because it is taking what is rejected and bringing it to the center unapologetically. But there’s a lot of flowers, pink and purple, and overly feminized language. It doesn’t resonate with me. So that was one of the reasons why I never saw myself in the Roman Catholic Woman Priest Movement. As a female Jesuit, I admit I am very male oriented in my spirituality. It works for me. I understand why women do not appreciate it, don’t like it, I get that. But what I experienced, in the movement, is that it is heavily that way. I feel homeless in the movement to be honest. Especially because I am entirely liturgically rooted in what the teaching of the Church is right now, in terms of what priesthood is. I’m celibate, I’m exactly the same as any male priest that you would meet. I follow the rubrics, I use the Roman Missal, I chose the title Father to both claim the tradition and to deconstruct it. So I find myself in a strange place right now. I consider myself a continuation and somewhat unique. Both of those things are true, I think.
 

Geneva Williams: Can you tell us about your mentors who taught you about being a woman in the Catholic Church?

 

Father Anne: As I mentioned I didn’t really grow up in the Church, I came to this much later. When I really, truly entered into the Church my earliest mentors were Jesuits, they were men. I recognize that’s so much why I am the way I am. I don’t often speak about my personal life. I am a tomboy, I have three brothers, no sister. I grew up in a house of men. My mother passed away very suddenly when I was 14. I was in a house of men, all of their friends, often the only girl in every context. I think that’s part of the reason how God got to me. The Jesuits had a deep impact on me, I was always peppering them with questions. I’m still very childlike, I always like to learn. The Jesuits put me through the Spiritual Exercises, and there were many who formed me as a Catholic adult. In addition to that, St. Ignatius Parish in Portland community, the center of the community were women.  There were women and men, but women were the core of the day-to-day activities of the parish. The staff, the liturgical ministers, the planners, the organizers, etc. While the Jesuits were forming me in their spirituality, the women in this parish were teaching me about piety and prayer. So the combination of them both is instrumental to who I am as Father Anne. 

 

Then when I went to Jesuit School of Theology where I was formed as a theologian. I stayed with the Jesuits. There were a couple of incredible professors there. Let me tell you, when you are a woman, surrounded by Jesuits, they are highly educated and can be very competitive. You have to be a very strong woman to deal with that. So these women were so smart, so educated, so powerful and I would watch them hold their own. They had a big impact on me and the content of their courses shaped me deeply. 

 

Then after that I had a job at St. Leo Parish, another Jesuit parish in Washington, and that community taught me what it was to be part of a social justice-minded parish. There were several women there who were unstoppable in their faith. Their faith energized them to take on these massive problems in society. This parish was on the front line of feeding people who were hungry, for housing people. It had a long history of energy around that, this unwaning energy that was sustained by the Holy Spirit. So it was this combination of Jesuit formation and the people of the parishes, largely women who truly lived out their faith. It flowed through their veins. That’s how it worked out for me. It was the water I was swimming in.

Williams: Have you experienced discrimination for being a public woman in the Catholic Church?

 

Father Anne: Yes, I have, indeed. From a structural standpoint there is great discrimination. This will not be news to you, but to be ordained is considered a crime. It is a crime in the Catholic Church. We receive the most severe punishment allowed by Church law, which is excommunication, and it is automatic for us. That’s a newer development. [The Church] used to deal with paperwork and now it’s automatic. What that means for me, a person who is so Catholic, who wants to be in the Church–I am not welcome to receive any of the sacraments, including the Eucharist. I cannot volunteer for the Church, I can’t work for the Church, which was my career. I am completely unwelcome. Beyond that obvious discrimination there is more. As an excommunicated priest I don’t have access to the same resources, theological resources, professional development. I have to fight for every opportunity. Growing as a priest is difficult as well because I am outside of the institution. They won’t let me participate. It is very difficult for me to accept and deal with. I take the punishment. I recognize that I violate the law as it stands now and I accept that.

In addition to that there is a lot of personal discrimination. This won’t be a surprise. In this age of social media where people feel free to attack—there is a lot of harassment, insults and trolling. I am often not given credibility as a priest, so that is difficult. I have to really work with that internally. I’ve lost friends, friendships, especially one in particular, because I have pursued this path in response to my call to God. There is a lot of discrimination. My Jesuit counterparts with whom I graduated, I watched them become deacons, then they were ordained as priests. They are now pastors and professors; they have gone on to get additional degrees. I had to give up my career, basically. So, yes. As an American woman, we have a lot of options and freedoms here. A lot of the sexism here is not so hardened, but this is straight structural sexism that you’re bumping up against. 

Williams: Can you talk about communities of faith you have found and how you have persevered over this adversity?
 

Father Anne: I do have a bit of a community that is with me and is engaged with me in Church reform. There is another woman, she is a priest, and she is similar to me. Her name is Reverend Shanon Sterringer. She has founded Hildegard Haus, highly educated, deeply pastoral, brilliant woman, and we both have a love of the institutional Church. She has built up a small, but growing community. She is one of the only priests in this movement that has a building. There are not many, there are 260 around the world, you can count on one hand how many are able to actually have a space and sustain that space with enough people. Her community has shown me welcome, support and encouragement. I still go to Mass in the institutional Church. I don’t receive the Eucharist, but I go, dressed in clerics. For me, it is important to stay connected to the institutional Church. A lot of the time in these other communities the liturgy has been changed, sometimes quite dramatically, and it doesn’t resonate with me. I find myself kinda homeless. I hate being excommunicated. A lot of people out here don’t mind it or relish in it. It is hell for me. I don’t like being out in the hinterlands, which is one of the reasons I work so hard on Church reform in the institutional Church. So it can be quite lonely for me because I don't feel quite connected to the communities outside of the Church. Even though I respect what they are doing, it’s just not for me.  

 

I have a rigorous personal discipline. Obviously the number one is prayer. I spend a lot of time in prayer, I spend a lot of time in adoration. I am growing much closer to Jesus. Prior to this, I didn’t really have a deeper connection with Jesus. I was very connected to the Holy Spirit and God the Father. The punishment, the harassment, the insults, all of this crucifixion–it helped me grow a lot closer to Jesus. I do a lot of physical exercise, I do yoga, I go to the gym, I work out a lot to get it out of my body. I have relationships. My spiritual director is a woman, and she is so instrumental. As well as some close friends and business advisors, and count Shanon Sterringer in that. 

 

Importantly, I draw on the experience of the Black community in the United States. 

Whenever I am feeling so disheartened and disillusioned, I think about what the Black community has gone through here. Whatever I am going through, it pales in comparison. The Black community, what they have gone through, I have heard it described as the greatest story in the history of the world. It was only recently I learned the story of Harriet Jacobs, who lived for seven years in the size of a little bit bigger than a coffin, basically. Because it was better than slavery, which says a lot. How her spirit persevered. So when I am feeling down and like there is no hope, I am so inspired by their stories. If she can do that, I can do this. So that helps me a lot.
 

Williams: Do you support the creation of an AP U.S. Women’s History course? 

 

Father Anne: I sure do support it! Absolutely. One of the primary reasons is that–this is a theological answer–there is the persistent story that has been told over the millenia that men are the pinnacle of God’s creation. That’s the narrative, that’s the story that keeps getting told over and over again. What a class like this does, first and foremost, is that it challenges that narrative. And it brings to light how that is a false narrative. This kind of a course is so important to revealing how the Holy Spirit is incarnating through women. It's important, not just for women to see themselves, but for all genders to see who are we as a human family.

The second thing I would say, and I am going to assume this course would do this–similarly, there is this persistent narrative in the United States that whiteness is the pinnacle of God’s creation. This kind of course reveals how women of color challenged whiteness and how white women have practiced racism. So not only do we get lifted up by all these women leaders who are from different backgrounds, but white people have the opportunity to see how racism infects the struggle for liberation. I think both of those things are critical. At some point women’s history will be more fully integrated into the curriculum, so perhaps a course like this might not be needed, although I think it is always in a certain way needed.

 

Williams: Can you tell us why you think such a course should exist and why you think it would be important to include Catholic women’s political work as part of this course?

 

Father Anne: I think in U.S. history, and I don’t know a lot about it, but this is my guess. Just like we see now, the Catholic Church is an immense power through politics. There is a lot of value to be seen in how Catholic women understand their faith and live it out in the public sphere. Not just to highlight how it may have both influenced politics, but also how it has been influenced by secular understandings.

 

Also, while the Catholic Church is such a massive force that shapes culture and politics, at the same time there is a lack of understanding of what the Catholic Church is in its complexity because the ones who get the spotlight, at least in the current situation, is the magisterium. It’s the dominant voice, while there is a whole other wing of the Catholic Church, Catholic Social Teaching, that’s working for peace, that’s working for the end of racism, that’s working for the end of war. Bringing that to the forefront, especially how women are living their faith out, is important to the understanding of how faith can shape political participation.